Psypoke
http://forums.psypokes.com/forums/

Old Pokemon Who Got UNNEEDED EVOLUTIONS.
http://forums.psypokes.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12494		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Frost [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Old Pokemon Who Got UNNEEDED EVOLUTIONS.
I was going to post this in the actual Sinnoh forum before I realized I'd get replies like "d00d doshydun rox LAWL m/!!11"

I've been reading up on PD info/metagame speculation over on Smogon for a couple of nights now. Recurring complaints that I've seen include: Flareon has been totally tossed into the trash bin after losing physical Hidden Power and Shadow Ball; the metagame is horribly slanted toward offense due to the move splits/so many Pokemon with incredibly large Attack and Speed stats/few Pokemon with good Defenses and HP; the DP Pokemon really outshine a lot of the older Pokemon stat/movepool-wise; and Pokemon from the RS metagame got evolutions that they didn't need.

Think about it. Rhydon, Magneton and Dusclops were all hardcore OU standards in the RS metagame. Therefore, what is the point in evolving them? They were already good to go in RS, hence why I think Pearl and Diamond are starting to look unbalanced. Additionally, Porygon2 was already BL, Electabuzz was BL/UU and Magmar was a pretty good UU. Meanwhile, Pokemon that can't do anything like Farfetch'd and Luvdisc continue to sit around and rot. Sucky old Pokemon, such as Murkrow and Aipom, got evolutions that really pale in comparison to new guys like Jibacoil and Dosaidon. In fact, low-tier Pokemon like Chimecho, Mantine and Sudowoodo got pre-evolutions.

Don't get a me wrong, though, because a few of the new evolutions are intriguing. Togekiss, Beroberuto (Lickitung's evolution), Mojanbo (Tangela's evolution) and others all look like they can cause some trouble. However, the more I've read, the more the PD metagame looks like it will completely unbalanced, and that's why I wrote this little rant. (Speaking of which, don't even get me started on Arseus' mere existence.)
Author:  R-cubed [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:34 am ]
Post subject: 
What do you mean by {magneton} {dusclops} {rhydon} don't need evos. I just love the magneton evo and the dusclop's evo. I don't like the Rhydon evo but it's still great that it has one.
Author:  Krisp [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Aipom. Murkrow. Magneton. Hell, why did they give ANY of the old pokemon evolutions besides Eevee? What I liked about RSE was it actually introduced all new pokemon, and not a bunch of "new evolutions" (even though most of the Hoenn pokemon failed.) Oh, and Roselia's new evolution. LOL RAPE FACE.
Author:  Peanut-Lover [ Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
-->Riishan (chimecho's pre-evo) is cute, but not at all useful
-->murkrow's evo fails.
-->Mr.Mime sort of sucks, as does Sudowuddo. Why make babies?
-->Megayanma looks like it'll also be sort of useless. Yes, it gets the relatively rare signal beam, but it has nothing else. Couldn't even get baton pass. I'd prefer Ninjask and Dewgong to this guy. (Yes, I said Dewgong will get better. Bug has quite a bit of type coverage).
-->Yukimenoko looks interesting, with good typing and movepool. But, the mediocre stats sort of killed it.
-->Aipom evo = FAIL
-->Glion (Gligar evo) looks good in theory, but the 4x weak to ice thing hurts it, as do some of the mediocre stats. Yes, electric and ground resist help, but not enough.
-->Glacia - Ice Beam, Water Pulse, Shadow Ball, yawn to force switches (though sleep talk could be widely used - I have no clue), Mirror coat. Thats it though.
-->Weavile - See nosepass evo, but without defenses. Only speed.
-->Regigigas - No, I know it isn't an evo. But you do need to have all of the Regis. Anyway, It Fails. Ability couldn't even be something good. Its almost as bad as truant.
-->Buuburn = fail . Fire types will suck in the metagame. Though, the fact that ths one learns t-punch is cool.

PorygonZ looks cool. Good stats, movepool. Tri-Attack is its only good stab, but it makes up for it in a big way - Recover, bolt-beam, DarkPulse, Signal Beam, Shadow Ball. Download > Adaptive, but then again, Trace > Downlooad (shedinja switch-in anyone? NOT ANYMORE!)

Leafia looks good. Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Leaf Blade, Scissor Cross are all good. Or, switch out b-pass for treasure (use swords dance, then each other move, then treasure. Cheap tactic).

Erureido looks quite good, actually.

Dainoosu looks quite good as a tank, but weakness to EQ/LAndpower and brick break/focus punch/pulse bomb sort of kills it. Iron Defense can help on the physical, while the nature and EVs on the special.

Manmu looks like a good powerhouse. Rock Slide, Curse, EQ, Snow Slide (curse will help it take a hit and lower the speed - allowing it to get hit, survive, and shoot.) or Ice Fang. Amnesia may be in there, to help the bad SDef, but I don't think you'll see it used.

Jibacoil - Skarm switch-in. T-bolt, HP Fire (Jiba vs. Jiba; though, HP Ground may be used. Then again, the forretress switch-in), Luster cannon (special now), Electro levitate for after skarms. Mirro coat. Metal sound. Excellent pool.

Elekible - It got the help it needed. If only it learned bulk up *sigh* flamethrower/t-bolt, t-punch, ice punch, brick break, rock slide, earthquake, meditate. T-bolt for the skarm switch (though, it learns flamethrower to also deal with forretress switch). Bolt-beam quake (no resist, except electrolevitate magneton).

Yonowaaru - It'll be a pain in the butt to take out, with mre hp, and more defenses. And, with attacking power, its movesets won't only consist of tauntable moves (mean-lolok, rest, imprison, curse, toxic, protect, etc). Alot of moves that will be used don't have much in the way of pp, so yeah. PRESSURE ABUSE!!!
Author:  Gnaaye [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Yup, I totally agree w/Frost. New "evo"s are totally useless. They could give evos to Luvdisc, Mantine, Chimecho to make em "less useless". Why give evos to BL or OU PKMN?
Author:  Frost [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Leafia is already highly overrated. Its entire movepool consists of Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Leaf Blade and Scissor Cross. Gee, what types resist both of those attacking moves? Certainly not Flying! Or Fire. Or Steel. See where I'm going with this? Leafia is simply too limited. It would have been better with Hidden Power. Glacia isn't much better, since it's basically a generic Water Pokemon that happens to learn Shadow Ball and nothing else.

Erureido is the kind of alternate evolution that just pisses me off. It looks like nothing more than Gardevoir with swords for hands. They have the same bases stats, only with Attack and Special Attack switched. In other words, it looks like Nintendo/GF put hardly any effort into its creation. The worst thing is that it learns a massive, abusable movepool. And, plus, since Erureido is always male, why didn't they go back and make Gardevoir 100% female? Lazy.

Jibacoil and Yonowaaru are my biggest pet peeves. YES, LET'S BOOST DUSCLOPS' ALREADY GODLY DEFENSES AND GIVE IT THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY ATTACK! Epic failure. Yonowaaru is going to be running rampant on Netbattle. On the other hand, I simply dislike Jibacoil because it looks stupid. Magneton was kind of limited (the only reason it caught on in RS is to abuse Skarmory), but I still don't think it needed an evolution. Especially not a giant UFO/POS satellite from Hell.

Togekiss is <3.
Author:  mr.m.m.j. [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Poor Flygon and Blaziken getting replaced by Gaburiasu (the Ground/Dragon Shark) and Goukazaru (the flaming monkey).

Frost wrote:
the metagame is horribly slanted toward offense due to the move splits/so many Pokemon with incredibly large Attack
and Speed stats/few Pokemon with good Defenses and HP

There will still be a sufficient number of tanks but it won't be as simple as switching in Bliss or Skarm.

Peanut-Lover wrote:
Fire types will suck in the metagame.

Most, if not all, of them got Solarbeam and otherwise expanded movesets so they aren't going to be as nearly as bad as they were before D/P.

Peanut-Lover wrote:
Manmu looks like a good powerhouse. Rock Slide, Curse, EQ, Snow Slide
(curse will help it take a hit and lower the speed - allowing it to get hit, survive, and shoot.) or Ice Fang.

Snow Slide, Revenge or any other move of the same nature don't have anything to do with the Speed stat. The move always goes last.

Yonowaaru - Dusclops is a good tank but its HP really screws it over. It constantly needs to Rest/Pain Split to stay alive and that's the only thing he ever does. At least now with the evo it can take hits slightly better and can actually cause some damage with that 100 base attack.

Jibacoil - Magneton is pretty useless for anything other than trapping Skarmory and you can play around with Metal Sound but that's it... The evo is gonna give it a lot more use.

Weavile - Sneasel was pathetic. It's usually long gone before it can Sword Dance up and do anything. Weavile will actually be able to put a dent it a team before it gets KOd.

Togekiss - Yay, a strong Serene Grace abuser that isn't Jirachi. I'm very happy to see this evo. It looks very promising.

Manmu - Piloswine is cool but pretty much sucks. The new moves and evolution made it better.

lol Beroberuto - It has a very wide movepool but average stats. I'm asuming a "Curse + 3 Physical moves" is going to be the most common set.

And yeah, too bad about Flareon :(.
Author:  Peanut-Lover [ Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:59 am ]
Post subject: 
In response to mmj,

~Sunny-Beamers are walled by Dragon/Flying, and a few others. They will need HP Ice, which isn't always at their disposal. Especially not at a good bp. Plus, they are weak to some of the more powerful moves - EQ and Rock Slide - on physical sweepers.

~Speed Priority - Yes, you are right. I checked the speed priority, and it was low, as was revenge, etc. I probably should have checked that.

There are other serene gracers that don't suck (namely, blissey). Ice Beaming Blissey works out quite well.
Goukazarru will still suck in comparison to Blaziken. No stats!

In response to Frost: Treasure. Leafia could again switch out b-pass for the awesome, 130 base power move.



Also, what I think we are sort of forgetting is that this won't be too unbalanced, with a lack of choices like RuSa200. Back then, you couldn't even get pokemon with good defenses. At least we can trade ack some special walls that we got used to (ie, Suicune, Lapras, and Claydol; to an extent Dragonite), and won't be stuck with the limited number of pokemon.

Also, with yono , it now has to take more powerful attacks. And, to tell you the truth, they didn't boost the HP and Defenses that much; 5 a piece.
Author:  Jikleon [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think magmars and electabuzz' evolutions are unnecessary. PorygonZ too by the way. Almost all of them are unnecessary. Except for Mojanbo (tangelas evo) it looks really cool and i'm definately gonna get one.
Author:  mns-geo [ Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
first thing buuburn also gets thunder bolt as a tm,but i hate the fact that they lowerd his speed

eletivire is going to be 1 hell of a physical sweeper being that his att is his best stat predict a bolt from the opponent switch in electivire get a speed boost(via his new ability) and sweep

mmj flygon did not get replaced he can still resist earthquake and spikes,flygon still rocks

talking about spikes do u think spikes will be lessed used now that stealth rock does the same ,is a tm and alot of pokemon can learn it in exmp-claydol,well just about all the rock,steel and ground's in the game plus some ubers

another thing maybe nin/gf doesnt see pokemon the way we do, maybe they dont separate the pokemon in tiers like we do,maybe the point in evolving these poke's was maybe releasing what shoulda been released a long time ago so they could make room for new ideas for a 5th gen with new pokes and new evos for old pokes that dont have evo's yet like luvdisk"lol" so that way the fans wont complaine about unecisary evo's(you know who you are dont make me point you out..."lol")
Author:  Blackwind [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't really think the Pokemon franchise has its main routes on the metagame. The damage done there is collateral, I believe. Gengar gets STABed Shadow Ball, TTar STABed Crunch... the balance could be a bit compromised, and most new evolutions are pointless, especially dusclops's in my opinion, but then again, the greatest problem with the new meta will be, the way I see it, that now, little skill will be needed to put up a strong team, as most pokemon will be given attacks that fit their best stats, what with the new distinction between physical and special. :?
Author:  Beechy boy [ Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Krisp wrote:
Aipom. Murkrow. Magneton. Hell, why did they give ANY of the old pokemon evolutions besides Eevee? What I liked about RSE was it actually introduced all new pokemon, and not a bunch of "new evolutions" (even though most of the Hoenn pokemon failed.) Oh, and Roselia's new evolution. LOL RAPE FACE.


I totally agree with this!
Author:  SuperBlastoise [ Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just asking, what difference is there between aipoms and lickitung's evos?
To me, the aipom one is just the same but a different nose, and the other has just been stretched! :evil:
Author:  agenttjw [ Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="mr.m.m.j."]Poor Flygon and Blaziken getting replaced by Gaburiasu (the Ground/Dragon Shark) and Goukazaru (the flaming monkey).

Flygon is one of my favorites. It has very high Attack and speed. It can never be replaced by some ugly 4th gen monster.

Blaziken is also one of my favorites. It is my starter and what i think to be the most powerful hoenn starter. Goukazaru will be myP/D starter because i always chose the fire starter and i will trade balziken over from emerald to P/D and i will compare the stats there!
Author:  daveshan [ Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Porygon-Z is what's going to run rampet.

http://www.lolstop/pokedex-dp/474.shtml

Tri attack (now a special attack) + Adaptive (ability that gives a second STAB) + STAB + 405 max special = Domination. If you are worried about a low speed of 279, just give it that adherence scarf that works like choice band but raises speed instead of attack.

I must have this pokemon on my team. Crap, this guy could go up againt blissey and win by special sweeping.

By the way, I didn't know rhydon was a staple.
Author:  tigerd [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
R-cubed wrote:
What do you mean by {magneton} {dusclops} {rhydon} don't need evos. I just love the magneton evo and the dusclop's evo. I don't like the Rhydon evo but it's still great that it has one.

I agree with RCubed!
I think that every old Pokemon should have a new EVO.
Almost everyone.....
Author:  hfxjus [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:25 am ]
Post subject: 
I think it's unnecessary to have evolutions of pokemon which are quite good in RSE etc... .It's just a waste. And PorygonZ looks weird.
Author:  Cosmic Clash [ Sat May 12, 2007 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Aipom didn't need an evo, it's weak. But as for as Rhydon, it really didn't need it. I mean can you compare rhyhorn to charmandar? Or rhydon to charmeleon? It's crazy, it's cool as a 1 state evolution type. As far as dusclops, the evolution was ok. Remember guys, don't rate them as if they're cool or not, but if they needed it.
Author:  Cosmic Clash [ Sat May 12, 2007 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
R-cubed wrote:
What do you mean by {magneton} {dusclops} {rhydon} don't need evos. I just love the magneton evo and the dusclop's evo. I don't like the Rhydon evo but it's still great that it has one.
Where'd you get those cool sprites?
Author:  RukarioManiac [ Sun May 13, 2007 12:27 am ]
Post subject: 
If you look at the whole picture in general...there was pokemon in previousgames that dominated the Metagame. DP gave pokemon that sorta countered it...and opened the NU/UU game a little bit more. And the Pokemon creators probably wanna motivate people to catch weak, old pokemon and trade them into the new games to get the evolutions. True, now litle skill will be needed to put up a good team but now it will take alot of skill to assort pokemon in such a fashion to be one of the best teams. And even though there will only be a certain group of OU Pokemon, there will be more movesets for them to try and counter everything else. Not so much skill in picking your pokemon, but more skill required to put together a moveset, pick your items, and actually battle.
Author:  Meeps [ Mon May 14, 2007 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
hfxjus wrote:
I think it's unnecessary to have evolutions of pokemon which are quite good in RSE etc... .It's just a waste. And PorygonZ looks weird.


PorygonZ isn't weird! He's cool 8-)

Rhydon got the worst evoloution ever. they should have gave electrode an evoloution instead.
Author:  airman33 [ Wed May 16, 2007 8:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Do you guys think that Aipom really needed an evolution come wow now he has 2 tails....?
Author:  Yoshipal13 [ Mon May 21, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Munchlax was not needed.

Snorlax was a great Kanto Pokemon and was already very popular. They didn't need to give him an unevo.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/