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Pokemon Analysis: Gengar
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Author:  Nuetral777 [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Pokemon Analysis: Gengar
Props, to Synchronize for this idea. I want to post some rules for Pokemon Analysis.

1. Lets not make a pokemon analysis a day. I'll say that once every 3 days someone can make a pokemon analysis.

2. THIS IS NOT A POKEMON OF THE WEEK LIKE THREAD. And don't treat it as such. This is strickly a competitive point of view where we discuss Pros, Cons, new movesets, ect. There is no rating or statements like,"This pokemon rocks in the game so it must be good in netbattle"

3. If you have never used the pokemon or never battle against the pokemon, refrain from posting. This goes along with #2.

4. This is open to all people granted you have used the pokemon competitively or have battling against the pokemon competitively. That isn't a hard thing to do so once you do that you can add to the discussion.

ON TO THE ANALYSIS.

Gengar. The Most Unpredictable pokemon in the game.

Pros:
+ Nice Movepool
+ High Speed and Sp.Atk
+ Nice Resistances and Immunities
+ Extremely Variable and hard to predict
+ Blocks Rapid Spin

Cons:
- Low HP and Defenses
- Shadow Ball is a pretty common physical attack
- Subs don't take many hits

Gengar has several movesets that are extremely useful.

Gengar @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Punch / Thunderbolt
- Explosion

Resistances and immunities to many CBers make this a beautiful CB counter. Thunderbolt can be used for Anti-Skarm Purposes.

The set's weak spot is the use of a physical wall(save Gengar carries Thunderbolt). Throwing a Dusclops or a Gengar will render it useless.

Gengar @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute / Hypnosis

Gengar's Sp.Sweeper form. Counters Swampert with ease and does extreme amounts of damage with a 394 Sp.Atk stat. Hypnosis is nice for sleeping Lax and Milotic. Sub can save you in some cases.

Blissey, Lax, Milotic, Celebi, ect. Some Special Walls love stoping this thing.

Gengar @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 136 Atk / 252 Spd / 120 SAtk
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch / Shadow Ball
- Substitute / Shadow Ball
- Focus Punch

Mc(Ice)Gar. Skarmbliss counter for the ages. With awesome prediction you can ditch Sub for Shadow Ball to counter other Gengar/Dusclops.

This set is all too well known, and Pokemon that can resist Thunderbolt and have a somewhat decent Sp.Def score and/or Calm Mind can withstand the punishment of this pokemon's special attacks will blasting the sub, enabling the use of Focus Punch.

General counters for this pokemon are:

Raikou, Metagross, Dusclops, Gengar, Celebi, Snorlax, Blissey(with Ice Beam), Milotic, Zapdos(w/ Light Screen), Skarmory(CBgar), Forretress(CBgar), Regirock(CBgar).

Post some more movesets that you've perfected and anything that you see is missing.
Author:  Tobey [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nuetral777 wrote:
@Leftovers
Modest: 252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd
Giga Drain
Ice Punch
Thunderbolt
Substitute / Hypnosis


Hidden Power Dark can be used over Giga Drain to deal some damage to Psychic Types without the need of Atk EVs for Shadow Ball. Fire Punch does wonders to Jynx if you nail it on the switch or sleep it.

This pokemon has too many variant to be predictable.

Torment + Substitute + Focus Punch + Thunderbolt means danger as some pokemon only have one attack that can harm a Gengar. I love the fighting, ground, bug, normal, and poison resist.
Author:  Synchronize [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Well thx Neutral, but seeing as this has already been done, I can't really take credit for it as my idea. It might be a little neater to use File=. Export to text and just cp the movesets btw. I can link you to the ones on my forums if you wanna see them, but I'll refrain if you consider it advertissing.

edit:
Quote:
1. Lets not make a pokemon analysis a day. I'll say that once every 3 days someone can make a pokemon analysis.


I don't think it should matter how often we make one as long as its accurate and informing enough to contribute to the forums.
Author:  Neo_Matrix [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
This really should be stickied. I LOVE this thing. I can FINALLY get counters for that damn Milotic and Snorlax. Props to Neutral777.
Author:  Tobey [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Syncronize, by all means, copy them onto this forum. Don't put it in this thread though.

Anyway, Stickying this topic would be pointless as you'd have to sticky 386 pokemon analysis, save 6 of them.

My brother and I know about the Export to Text. Thing is, the moveset was easy to read and understand. :

The only thing that the Export to Text has that this does not is the trait and what the nature effects in terms of stats. It isn't necessary to Export to Text.
Author:  Prophet [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
One thing. You forgot to list Starmie as a counter, it can OHKO Gengar with Psychic.
Author:  FireStarter [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
A counter has to be able to switch in against that Pokemon. Starmie cannot switch in well against Gengar, as if your opponent uses Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, or Sub...well, it could spell trouble for Starmie.

example

A counter for Raikou would be Camerupt. Camerupt can switch in and, assuming they don't have HP Water over Ice/Grass, will not be seriously affected by Raikou, while Camerupt will in all likelyhood have Earthquake.

However, Rhydon would not be a counter. Sure, it has an Electric resistance, but alot of Raikou have HP Grass.
Author:  Lynx [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
FireStarter wrote:
A counter has to be able to switch in against that Pokemon. Starmie cannot switch in well against Gengar, as if your opponent uses Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, or Sub...well, it could spell trouble for Starmie.

example

A counter for Raikou would be Camerupt. Camerupt can switch in and, assuming they don't have HP Water over Ice/Grass, will not be seriously affected by Raikou, while Camerupt will in all likelyhood have Earthquake.

However, Rhydon would not be a counter. Sure, it has an Electric resistance, but alot of Raikou have HP Grass.

thats actually not a good example, because starmie is faster than gengar, true it can be caught on the switch by a t-bolt, but the only reason the rhydon would get HP grassed would not because it would be nailed on the switch but because it would be ohko'd by raikou's hp grass after the t-bolt/cm/sub on the switch

if you can predict an ice punch from gengar then the starmie switchin might work
Author:  Prophet [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, Starmie's higher max speed makes it a gengar-owner. What often happens is the opponent switches Gengar in against Starmie and gets NAILED by Psychic. Or, Gengar KO's something, I send out Starmie and OWNED. It's too effective to leave out of the counter list IMO.

Bye the way, what about a special sweeper Gar? I've used one before and it was quite effective.

This was mine:

Gengar (F) @ Petaya Berry ** Dweller
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Destiny Bond
- Fire Punch
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt

Petaya could be switched for Lefties of course. I just thought I'd try it out at the time.
Author:  FireStarter [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wasn't trying to find an example EXACTLY the same, just an example of one that is a counter and one that isn't a counter. I will admit my example wasn't as relevant as I had hoped, though.

Anyway, with alot of prediction you can get Starmie in, but you can't honestly call it a counter. And with Starmie, it has too awesome of a movepool (unless you are afraid of Heracross as well) to waste a slot on Psychic, STAB or not.
Author:  Lynx [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Prophet wrote:
Yes, Starmie's higher max speed makes it a gengar-owner. What often happens is the opponent switches Gengar in against Starmie and gets NAILED by Psychic. Or, Gengar KO's something, I send out Starmie and OWNED. It's too effective to leave out of the counter list IMO.

Bye the way, what about a special sweeper Gar? I've used one before and it was quite effective.

This was mine:

Gengar (F) @ Petaya Berry ** Dweller
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Destiny Bond
- Fire Punch
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt

Petaya could be switched for Lefties of course. I just thought I'd try it out at the time.

he has a special sweeper set listed, he just did list very many alternative moves....
Author:  Tobey [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
You guys are doing exactly what you are supposed to for this analysis. The thread itself is to have the analysis within it, with many people making comments. That is the beauty of this thing, multiple people coming to a consensus. Not all neatly placed in the initial post...at least until we have analyzed Gengar enough.

Anyway:

Starmie will indeed own the snot out of Gengar.

Shadow Ball from McGar won't KO Starmie on the switch so...you could still own it.

With no Def/Sp.Def or HP Evs Gengar takes:

20-25% from STAB Sludge Bomb from a 350 atk stat.

17-20% from a STAB Signal Beam from a 350 Atk Stat

74-85% from a STAB thunderbolt/Ice beam/flamethrower from a 350 Sp.Atk Stat
Author:  Prophet [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
And if I can recall correctly, Starmie takes about 97% when switched into Gar's thunderbolt. Sometimes I had a Petaya Berry on Starmie and Gar would set it up for ownage right away. So I think it's good enough to be called a counter, beats the pants off of that evil ghost.
Author:  Tobey [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Modest Gar can 100% KO Starmie with Thunderbolt.
Author:  Prophet [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
I see. Well, I was speaking in terms of McGar, who usually has Hasty Nature and 122 Sp. Atk Evs. I'll visit the Damage calculator in a second.

Edit: 82-97% damage from a standard McGar on a Starmie with no S. Defense or HP EVs. Looks like I was right :D
Author:  FireStarter [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Synchronize wrote:
Quote:
1. Lets not make a pokemon analysis a day. I'll say that once every 3 days someone can make a pokemon analysis.


I don't think it should matter how often we make one as long as its accurate and informing enough to contribute to the forums.


I definitely agree with this. As long as the analysis is good, people should feel free to post it. A bad analysis will be promptly deleted.
Author:  Synchronize [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Also, I forgot: Taunt found its way on gengar. Ask around for Shrapn3l and he'll tell you about it.
Author:  BobThePlumber [ Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay, I know this thread is old, but I wanted to throw in my two cents. This Gengar is good against ubers, but isn't so great with sleep clause on. It's not great because it really has no flexibility, but here it is:

Gengar @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def or 4 SpDef
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)(Anything that raises speed is good here, as long as it doesn't lower the defences)
- Hypnosis
- Dream Eater/Shadow Ball
- Mean Look
- Curse/Nightmare

Use curse with Dream Eater, Nightmare with Shadow ball

Best against ubers because people think "Hahaha that little Gengar can't hurt my Rayquaza!", so they don't switch out before you nail em with Mean Look.

Battle Plan:

If opponent is arrogant and probably won't switch:

Hypnosis
Mean Look
Curse/Nightmare
Dream Eater/Shadow Ball

If you think they'll switch once asleep, do Mean Look first.
Author:  daveshan [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
You may want to edit nature to Timid or Jolly (+Spd -Sp. Att) since your Gengar's only directly offensive move interchanges between a psychic attack and a ghost attack.
Author:  dinges [ Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I use a sp. sweeper {gengar} myself and it owns a lot. I dont like ice punch(low power and if I need ice I call {lapras}), so I use psychic instead. For countering {blissey} I have will-o-wisp instead of hypnosis/sub.
Author:  Tyranitar5000 [ Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:44 am ]
Post subject: 
On my Gengar i've got

Gengar@Leftovers, Lonely
Giga Drain/Ice Punch/Fire Punch/Focus Punch

and so far that's worked pretty well for me. Switch into a Swampert and drain away, 'Mence is gone with Ice Punch, and FP counters Bliss when you think it'll switch in. Fire punch is there for any pesky Grass types which i can't handle with the rest of my team.
Author:  Synchronize [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Tyranitar5000 wrote:
On my Gengar i've got

Gengar@Leftovers, Lonely
Giga Drain/Ice Punch/Fire Punch/Focus Punch

and so far that's worked pretty well for me. Switch into a Swampert and drain away, 'Mence is gone with Ice Punch, and FP counters Bliss when you think it'll switch in. Fire punch is there for any pesky Grass types which i can't handle with the rest of my team.


Thunderbolt is better overr Fire Punch, since Ice Punch handles most off what Fire Punch does. Not saying it's not a cool option, but Thunderbolt serves better for taking down Bulky waters before they start to wreak havoc. I'm a big Fan of WoW Gengar for screwing with Snorlax.
Author:  daveshan [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:42 am ]
Post subject: 
What's the WoW gengar?
Author:  Nuetral777 [ Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
daveshan wrote:
What's the WoW gengar?


Gengar with Will-o-Wisp.
Author:  Deck Knight [ Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
I love using Gengar but hate facing one. For my Gengar's I usually go with Sub/Shadow Ball/Focus Punch/Ice Punch and use attack EV's. It isn't the generally predicted special sweeper and I lol at Mence since it gets OHKO'd by No EV Ice Punch. I may occaisionally drop one of the other 3 moves for Thunderbolt for killing Skarms and other rude guests.
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