Walrein can shrug off any attack Gligar can throw at it on the switch very easily.
Politoed probably can too.

Also, this is NOT a "pokemon analysis". It is a meta-game analysis. Go write Gligar's pokemon analysis. Leave it out of the UU meta-game analysis, because as everyone except you agrees, it doesn't belong here in the manner in which you included it.

As for belly drum, Linoone's defenses are utter crap. Poliwrath is a pokemon I would put in the low end of the bulky water category. I've seen it take ~30% from Swampert earthquakes, belly drum, and sweep. Not to mention if you don't like belly drum, it still has those defenses, a nice move pool, and the ability to bulk-up.

Also for the record, a CB'ed return from fearow doesn't really touch a Granbull that is set up as a physical sponge thanks to Intimidate. And yes, I would dare say that clerics do work in UU, quite well actually. Maybe you just don't know how to use them.

Actually I find it ironic that you name 1 counter for the salac-drum poliwrath and say it's bad and name 3 or 4 counters for Granbull and say its bad, yet you've already admitted to 6 or 7 counters for Gligar and still want to say it's godly in UU. Go write your pokemon analysis.

Seriously though, I'm not maligning you or anything. Go do a pokemon analysis on Gligar. We need more pokemon analyses. We've only got about a dozen of em, and it would be cool to fill the collection.

The term UU isn't meant literaly. Pokemon are labeled as UU because of their stats, their movepools, or otherwise. Cloyster is freaking BL because it's defense is HUGE, AND it is used quite a fair bit in standard OU play. By whom? By people who don't want a Spiker wall who is trapped by Magneton. Slowbro isn't used as much, but it still has such good stats, and an awesome movepool that it IS banned from UU play most places you look.

Oh, and by the way. This Analysis is for the UU Metagame that derives from SMOGONS LIST! If you want to argue that "pokemon works" when it clearly isn't on the UU list, then please, get out of my thread.

And that is only because Suicune can do the exact same thing, only better.


I said it before, I'll say it again. I love the arrogance. As a matter of fact, I have played UU. I played NB for over a year and 90% of that time was spent playing nothing but UU. I've played at Pokerealm, UU stadium, my own server, and Smogon (very rarely, cause most of the UUers there suck not to step on any feet. I know there are some very good battlers there, but in terms of raw proportions, PR has better players overall, simply because Smogon is the biggest server, so thats where all the nubs flock). Participated in several Pokerealm UU tournaments, placing fairly well. Regardless though, I do not have to explain myself to you. Clearly you feel you have been backed against the wall by logical argument and feel you need to lash out with personal attacks. Don't worry, I won't take it personally. Also, it's not your analysis I am criticizing. Overall it is good (though I think you overemphasize certain parts while understating certain others, but overall it is good). It is not even your obsession with Gligar that is the problem. Everyone is allowed to have a favorite poke, but one of the most critical aspects of any kind of analysis, be it pokemon, metagame, move, ability, etc, is that it be objective, and objectively speaking, Gligar is not a serious enough threat in UU to devote just about half of your UU metagame analysis to.


I did find this comment interesting. For all time you claim you've spent playing UU, you are still that reliant on the Smogon guides to tell you everything about a pokemon? I will admit they are interesting reads, but it was my experience during the year+ that I played NB competitively that the good players weren't the nubs that relied on Smogon or any other sites' analyses to spoon feed them good teams and sets. The good ones were the players that did their own thing, made their own sets, built their own teams, because in the end, there is only so much you can be taught. The rest has to be learned. It works the same way in the real world. The individuals that are at the top of their fields are not having everything spoon fed to them, they are the ones doing the research, coming up with new ideas, and writing the books that spoon feed others.

The UU Metagame isn't about CB everything, thats for sure. While there are certianly a fair few CB Birds out there, the idea that UU play runs on CBer's is flawed. CB is no more prevalent in UU than in OU. CB Mence, Metagross, and Heracross variants anyone? As far as HP Ground eating the physical walls, you can predict their prediction and switch to say Solrock or Misdreavus and then larf at their waste of a turn.

One large aspect of UU play is Sub/Endure + Reversal. With no TTar glaring over your shoulder the strategy can be pulled off quite well, which is why UU play almost necessitates priority attackers.

With the new XD Mods, theres a few effective Clerics to be found in Amphy and Altaria (I think Lapras got it too).

There are indeed walls in UU. Lanturn is a special wall, as are Hypno and Muk. I also don't advise switching in to a Muk because they've been known to expect Steel switchin's by now and are ready to frag you with Fire Blast.

And as a note, next to anything with Ice Beam owns Gligar. I send a Nidoqueen out on Electric types, and then when Gligar switches in I laugh in its face as it does 60-70% damage with EQ and then gets OHKO'd no questions asked by Ice Beam. The reason Gligar is allowed in UU is because while it does have some attack and speed, it isn't enough to warrant general use and the OU Metagame mainstays crap all over it.

Defeating Gligar is all about screwing with its setup. If you let Gligar get Swords Dance AND a Sub up, you DESERVE to get thrashed.

The UU metagame is all about prediction. It is faster paced than OU but no less enjoyable.

I thought we were talking about UU here =/



ty much =) I was in a hurry when I made this post before I left for school, so I didn't edit over some of the harsher words =/



I didn't spend half of my analysis talking about it. The only difference that the Gligar part has is that I just posted some movesets and junk. I would have posted a bunch of movesets on other stuff, but I was way too lazy. The fact that Gligar has that stuff put on in just makes it look like a lot more.




I am sorry, but I do find this offensive. I would pretty much be posting the same standard sets, rather than posting anything interesting or unique. (Mostly becuase I keep that stuff for myself to suprise people )

w00t, someone who knows what he's talking about!

Sure, whatever. Despite the large list of CBers I just posted, there are obviously hardly any CBs in UU at all. Since, you know, everything has enough attack without CB to win :roll:



Yes, I can see how Sub/Endure + Reversal is HUGE. Especailly since EVERY SINGLE TEAM runs Quick Attack. That makes it a better choice than

say

Choice Band anyone?



Yes, I can totally see your point (re: not)

And stop talking about freakin' Laprasy people.

She's Borderline, NOT UU!



um sure. And then Thick Fat Grumpig eats that Fire Blast only to CM in your face before destroying you. And switching steels in was just for that stupid Curse + Sludge Bomb set, anyway.



Good job einstien, I'm sure no one has figured that out yet :roll:

Also, I almost missed your point about Nidoqueen and Ice Beam.

Um, who in their right mind would switch Gligar in on Nidoqueen/king? Everyone and their mother KNOWS that it packs Ice Beam.

I was responding to your statement that Slowbro isn't quite as common in OU as Cloyster with a simple reason why. So I could say the same thing, I thought we were talking about UU.


Like I said, I don't take it personally.


Let's see, you have as many sets for Gligar in your UU analysis as you do for every other pokemon combined. In terms of actual written text (i.e. non-set, non-list actual analysis, about 1/3 of the analysis is devoted to Gligar and Gligar alone, leaving about 2/3s of it to address CBers, Sub/End Revers, walls, sponges, and everything else. So you're right, not exactly half is devoted to Gligar, only somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2.


Ahhhh, so you're one of those. That would be consistant with the elitist attitude.

Well, considering I wrote this on a whim, it would be consistant with what was going through my mind at the time. I could have spent more time on Reversalers, but Quick Attack is just bleh. I used to have one, but I realized that it's not the godly icon. What I should have spent some time on are the Special Sweeprs; more specifically, Manectric and co. They are definatly gamebreakers that I wish I mentioned, but just paraphrased them.

Dude, Siphai, take some advice from your avatar and chill.



Please tell me where I said "there are hardly any CBer's at all". I clearly said that they existed but the UU metagame does not REVOLVE around them.



Yes, because like, EVERY pokemon on a team is going to have Quick Attack and not just say 1 or 2 that, once out of the way, allow your Subversaler to wreak havoc? Yeah, thought so. CBer's get nerfed as the last pokemon, Subversalers allow come-from-behind victories. CBer's rely completelty on outpredicting, Subversalers rely on a better speed stat and a berry boost.





Depends on your list, although I myself wondered why the frick UUSF allowed Lapras in, that thing is a beast. Its also why it was in parentheses because many consider it too powerful for UU (myself among them).

As to Clerics: Didn't your analysis say status was everywhere? I seem to recall so, and therefore havingf Aromatherapy or Heal Bell could, you know, fix that problem. Not to mention that Altaria, while certainly no Blissey, has defense oriented stats and also has Natural Cure and therefore makes a good cleric, as does Amphy who makes a lot of things switch out fearing a STABBed Tbolt off the godly SA. Hell, I've been using Granbull for Heal Bell since before the XD mods and it seemed to work just fine.





Yeah, because the existence of Grumpig makes Muk useless... Oh, except Muk still has a STABBED Sludge Bomb to chuck in your direction, or perhaps its lured you into an Explosion? UU is all aboiut unpredictablity, and with Muks Defense and SD, maybe they WANT to Lure your Grumpig in to get rid of the pesky thing. And why would Grumpig have Thick Fat instead of perhaps Own Tempo? Most of your arguments are based on "X doesn't work because X pokemon counters it". Its called switching, you've heard of it, I suppose?




I've seen it done before, mostl;y because they think they can come in and pwn it with EQ or wanted to spare their electric a deathblow. And i'm surprised you're the one to talk about obvious statements and switchins, given that the entire premise of your arguments "Thick Fat Grumpig into Muk", "Every Team runs Quick Attack so Subversal doesn't work", "I don't see your points about Clerics(as of yet unexplained)".

Just Chill Siphai. Its what the snowman would do.

No, the snowman is freaking contemplating it's evolution from a snowball, not chilling.

I think some people are over reading my posts regarding walls and such.

YES there are walls. However, UU is faster paced than OU. You aren't going to stall insanely like in OU with Muk, Hypno, ect. because UU has a tilt in the way of offense rather than defense.

Also, CB is used more in UU because of the pace issue. Per Team it isn't uncommon to find 2 or 3 CBers on a team. Maybe 2 fast and 1 slow with high defenses. However, CB doesn't rule the UU format. Guts rules the UU format.

btw, UUSF allows BLs.

Exactly.

Also, UUSF has a differen't UU and BL tier system than most other main websites anyway.

I note you missed the NU list Smogon has, some of which are viable in UU play (and I doubt they'd be banned from your UU tourney for being too powerful, LOL.)

Aipom
Ariados
Beedrill
Beautifly
Castform
Chimecho
Corsola
Crawdaunt
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dustox
Farfetch'd
Furret
Girafarig
Glalie
Huntail
Illumise
Kecleon
Ledian
Lickitung
Luvdisc
Magcargo
Masquerain
Mawile
Mightyena
Minun
Murkrow
Noctowl
Nosepass
Parasect
Pelipper
Pidgeot
Piloswine
Plusle
Raticate
Relicanth
Seaking
Shuckle
Spinda
Sudowoodo
Sunflora
Swalot
Togetic
Torkoal
Trapinch
Tropius
Unown
Venomoth
Volbeat
Wailord
Whiscash
Wigglytuff

Obviously not all of them are viable, but you can have some success with a few. Relicanth has your Normal/Flying resist, and actually has better HP than Golem with the same defense. Venomoth can Double Powder and has 306 speed with a speed boosting nature. I've also had limited success with a Thieving Mightyena and Cursing Lickitung (although in XD it gets Heal Bell, which I haven't tried on it yet). Whiscash also has some potential with 101HP Subs, and I contend the Piloswine does not deserve NU status, but thats for another day. Just don't forget about these guys totally, they are still options.

I appreciate your mentioning of NU's in the UU metagame. However, they are all NU for a reason. Relicanth is outclassed by Aggron and Golem in the wall department (Since Golem actually gets STAB on EQ and has a higher attack, along with Explode). Venomoth cannot do anything other THAN Double Powder, and it pretty much cannot switch in. Mightyena has lower stats than Raticate, and Lickitung just doesn't work. Whiscash is outclassed by Quagsire, and Piloswine has the worst type combo in the game (Except, maybe, Bug/Grass).

I'd argue that Relicanth is an alternative if your team has too much Water or Ice weakness. I'd also say that "they're NU for a reason" is as flawed as "they're UU for a reason" in the Standard Avdance Metagame. The Tier as handed down by the people of Smogon is a fairly accurate depiction of overall usefullness but does not account for team synergy or team needs.

Lets look at the stats and type chart:

Golem:
HP: 80
Attack: 110
Defense: 130
Speed: 45
SA: 55
SD: 65

Physical resistances: Normal, Flying, Rock, Poison(1/4x)
Special resistanes: Fire, Electric(0X)

Physical weaknesses: Ground, Fighting, Steel
Special weaknesses: Water(4x), Grass(4X), Ice

Aggron:
HP: 70
Attack: 110
Defense: 180
Speed: 50
SA: 60
SD: 60

Physical resistances: Normal(1/4x), Flying(1/4x), Bug, Rock, Ghost, Poison(0X)
Special resistances: Ice, Psychic, Dragon

Physical weaknesses: Fighting(4x), Ground(4x)
Special Weaknesses: Water

Relicanth:
HP: 100
Attack: 90
Defense: 130
Speed: 65
SA: 45
SD: 65

Physical resistances: Normal, Poison, Flying
Special resistances: Fire(1/4x), Ice

Physical weaknesses: Fighting, Ground
Special weaknesses: Electric, Grass(4X)

Tier is not an important factor to consider when choosing your team. What your team needs is the only thing that matters, and sometimes, although not often, an NU pokemon fits the bill. If all you're looking for is Normal and Flying resist, Relicanth has more HP than the others and avoids redundant defense points, however, if you're looking for Electric immunity as well or just a general switchin, you're better off with Golem and Aggron, respectively.

I'm not arguing that Aipom or Lickitung will be seeing mainstream use any time soon, simply that not every NU pokemon should be disregarded just because some guy at Smogon said it was NU. Thats all.