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Generation IV Tier List - last update February 17th, 2011

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SkyBlitz Dragon Tamer Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:07 pm Posts: 140 Location: The Spriting Shack (check siggy)	Rampardos is definitely not OU. Its only hopes are BP some Speed of Defenses behind a Sub, or Rock Polish with Sash. BPing the Speed isn't as good with SR killing Jask, and hardly anything can BP defense very well, as far as I know. I'm not sure of it being UU, as the Sash strategy can work pretty well at times, if your opponent isn't prepared. I don't see a lot of BLness in Wynaut, as most things in BL will still run over it. I also think Tentacruel will get run over a lot in BL, with the use of EQ as a common sweeping attack and that base 65 Defense, and should be a UU. (Though I'm probably wrong) _________________ Want great art and sprites? Go to The Spriting Shack (I'm too lazy to center it ) There are two types of people in this world. Those with good attention spans and those with... hey! A cookie!
Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:09 am

Roar Of Time Pokemon Ranger Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:25 am Posts: 691	Re: D/P tiers ship_in_a_bottle wrote: Aerodactyl Alakazam BL Ambipom Azelf Blissey Breloom Bronzong Celebi Cresselia Donphan Dragonite Dugtrio Dusknoir Electivire Gallade BL Garchomp Gengar Gliscor Gyarados Heatran Heracross Hippowdon Houndoom BL Infernape Jirachi Jolteon BL Lucario Machamp Magnezone Mamoswine Medicham BL Mesprit Metagross Milotic BL Porygon-Z Raikou BL Rampardos BL Rhyperior Salamence Shaymin Skarmory Slaking Slowbro Snorlax BL Spiritomb Staraptor Starmie Suicune Swampert Tangrowth Togekiss Torterra Tyranitar Weavile Weezing Yanmega Zapdos BL _________________ Clickage <Derek> is anyone here ?? <AngrySparrow> No <Derek> im gonna leave because no one is here *** Derek has quit (Exit: Psypoke Forever!)
Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:20 am

Gnaaye Pokemon Ranger Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:22 am Posts: 815	Re: D/P tiers ship_in_a_bottle wrote: UBER Arceus Darkrai Deoxys (All forms) Dialga Giratina Groudon Ho-oh Kyogre Latias (regardless of Soul Dew) Latios (Same as Latias) Lugia Manaphy Mew Mewtwo Palkia Rayquaza Wobbuffett OU (Overused) Aerodactyl Alakazam Ambipom Azelf Blissey Breloom Bronzong Celebi Cresselia Donphan Dragonite Dugtrio Dusknoir Electivire Gallade Garchomp Gengar Gliscor Gyarados Heatran Heracross Hippowdon Houndoom <- BL Infernape Jirachi Jolteon Lucario Machamp Magnezone Mamoswine Medicham Mesprit <- BL Metagross Milotic Porygon-Z Raikou Rampardos <- BL Rhyperior Salamence Shaymin Skarmory Slaking <- BL Slowbro Snorlax Spiritomb <- BL Staraptor <- BL Starmie Suicune Swampert Tangrowth Togekiss Torterra Tyranitar Weavile Weezing Yanmega Zapdos BL (Borderline) Absol Arcanine Armaldo Articuno Blaziken Chansey Charizard Claydol Cloyster Cradily Crobat Dodrio <- UU Drapion Dusclops Empoleon Entei Espeon Exeggutor Feraligatr Floatzel Flygon Forretress <- OU Frosslass Gardevoir Glaceon Hariyama Haunter <- UU Honchkrow Jumpluff Jynx Kadabra <- UU Kangaskhan Kingdra Lapras Leafeon Lickilicky Linoone Ludicolo Luxray <- UU Magmortar Magneton <- UU Marowak (with Thick Club) Miltank Mismagius Moltres Nidoking Ninetales Ninjask Pikachu (with Light Ball) <- UU Pinsir Poliwrath Porygon2 Probopass <- UU Raichu <- UU Regice <- OU Regigigas <- UU Regirock Registeel Relicanth Rhydon Roserade Sceptile Scizor Sharpedo <- UU Slowking Steelix Swellow Tauros Tentacruel <- OU Toxicroak Typhlosion Umbreon Ursaring Uxie Vaporeon Venusaur Wynaut <- UBER Zangoose UU (Underused) Abomasnow <- BL Aggron Altaria Ampharos Azumarill <- BL Banette Bastiodon Bellossom <- NU Bibarel <- NU Blastoise Cacturne Camerupt Carnivine Cherrim <- NU Clefable <- BL Crawdaunt Drifblim Dunsparce Electrode Exploud Fearow Flareon Gastrodon Glalie <- NU Golduck <- BL Golem Gorebyss Granbull Grumpig Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Hitmontop Huntail Hypno Kabutops Kingler Lanturn Lopunny Lunatone Manectric Mantine Meganium Mightyena Mr. Mime Muk Nidoqueen Noctowl Octillery Omastar Persian Phione Politoed Primeape Purugly Quagsire Rapidash Rotom Sableye <- NU Sandslash Seviper Shedinja <- NU Shiftry Shuckle <- BL Skuntank Solrock Sudowoodo Torkoal Venomoth Vespiquen Victreebel Vileplume Wailord Walrein Whiscash Wormadam [Ground] <- NU Xatu NU (Neverused) Arbok Ariados Beautifly Beedrill Butterfree <- UU Castform Chatot Chimecho Corsola Delcatty Delibird Dewgong <- UU Ditto Dustox Farfetch’d Furrett Girafarig Illumise Kecleon Kricketune Ledian Lumineon Luvdisc Magcargo Masquerian Mawile Minun Mothim Pachirisu Parasect Pelipper Pidgeot Plusle Qwilfish Raticate Seadra <- UU Seaking Spinda Stantler Sunflora Swalot Tropius Unown Volbeat Wigglytuff <- UU Wormadam [Grass] Wormadam [Steel] I find it funny how this got stickied, a shame. Too many mistakes. _________________ (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ('')_('') signature to help him gain world domination The Jonatron wrote: Xatu Unlickely this guy wont get powered.
Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:26 am

sanjay120 Dragon Tamer Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117	Chatot needs to be moved to UU, as do Qwilfish, Raticate, and Sunflora. You can't name a few good counters for any of them.
Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:03 pm

Roar Of Time Pokemon Ranger Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:25 am Posts: 691	Re: D/P tiers ship_in_a_bottle wrote: Absol Arcanine Armaldo Articuno Blaziken Chansey Charizard Claydol Cloyster Cradily Crobat UU Dodrio UU Drapion Dusclops Empoleon Entei Espeon Exeggutor Feraligatr Floatzel Flygon Forretress OUFrosslass Gardevoir Glaceon Hariyama Haunter Honchkrow Jumpluff UU Jynx UU Kadabra Kangaskhan Kingdra Lapras Leafeon Lickilicky Linoone Ludicolo Luxray UU Magmortar Magneton Marowak (with Thick Club) Miltank Mismagius Moltres Nidoking Ninetales Ninjask Pikachu (with Light Ball) Pinsir Poliwrath Porygon2 Probopass Raichu Regice Regigigas Regirock Registeel Relicanth UU Rhydon Roserade Sceptile Scizor Sharpedo UU Slowking UU Steelix Swellow Tauros Tentacruel Toxicroak Typhlosion UU Umbreon Ursaring Uxie Vaporeon Venusaur Wynaut Zangoose UU (Underused) Underused is for Pokemon with sub-par base stats, abilities, movepool and so on. These Pokemon have their own metagame. Abomasnow BL Aggron Altaria Ampharos Azumarill Banette Bastiodon Bellossom Bibarel Blastoise Cacturne Camerupt Carnivine Cherrim Clefable Crawdaunt Drifblim Dunsparce Electrode Exploud Fearow Flareon Gastrodon Glalie Golduck Golem Gorebyss Granbull Grumpig Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Hitmontop Huntail Hypno Kabutops Kingler Lanturn Lopunny Lunatone Manectric Mantine Meganium Mightyena Mr. Mime Muk Nidoqueen Noctowl Octillery Omastar Persian Phione Politoed Primeape Purugly Quagsire Rapidash Rotom Sableye Sandslash Seviper Shedinja Shiftry Shuckle Skuntank Solrock Sudowoodo Torkoal Venomoth Vespiquen Victreebel Vileplume Wailord Walrein Whiscash Wormadam [Ground] Xatu _________________ Clickage <Derek> is anyone here ?? <AngrySparrow> No <Derek> im gonna leave because no one is here *** Derek has quit (Exit: Psypoke Forever!)
Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:30 am

superblah Dragon Tamer Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:01 pm Posts: 192 Location: Please do not email me since I never check my email! Pm me instead please! You have been warned....	@RoT Slowking is definitely not UU, it's almost as good as Slowbro which is for sure OU. Almost the same stats (I think the defenses are switched) and basically the same movepool. What's bad about that? _________________ Credit for this brilliant banner goes to gonboo, owner of Gonboo's Graphics Kiosk. Thanks gonboo!
Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:29 pm

Frost THE POWER IS ON! Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:29 am Posts: 1581 Location: Purple Ranger	This is a tier list I wrote up this morning. It probably has some mistakes here or there, so I'm posting it here for discussion and further revisions before I replace the tier list in the original post. I starred the Pokemon whose tier placement I feel particularly shaky on. Feel free to leave some advice but do explain your corrections in a polite manner. Uber: Mewtwo, Mew, Wobbuffet, Lugia, Ho-oh, Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Deoxys, Deoyxs (Attack), Deoxys (Defense), Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Manaphy, Darkrai, Arceus OU: Dugtrio, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Gengar, Weezing, Starmie, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Zapdos, Dragonite, Forretress, Heracross, Skarmory, Donphan, Blissey, Suicune, Tyranitar, Celebi, Swampert, Breloom, Salamence, Metagross, Jirachi, Deoxys (Speed), Infernape, Bronzong, Garchomp, Lucario, Hippowdon, Weavile, Magnezone, Rhyperior, Tangrowth, Electivire, Togekiss, Yanmega, Gliscor, Mamoswine, Porygon-Z, Dusknoir, Azelf, Heatran, Cresselia BL: Venusaur, Charizard, Clefable, Ninetales, Arcanine, Alakazam, Machamp, Cloyster, Exeggutor, Marowak, Rhydon, Chansey, Tauros, Lapras, Jolteon, Articuno, Moltres, Feraligatr, Crobat, Azumarill, Espeon, Umbreon, Gligar, Steelix, Scizor, Ursaring, Houndoom, Kingdra, Porygon2, Smeargle, Miltank, Raikou, Entei, Sceptile, Blaziken, Ludicolo, Gardevoir, Slaking, Ninjask, Shedinja, Medicham, Flygon, Zangoose, Claydol, Milotic, Dusclops, Absol, Wynaut, Regirock, Registeel, Regice, Torterra, Empoleon, Staraptor, Roserade, Rampardos, Floatzel, Ambipom, Mismagius, Honchkrow, Spiritomb, Drapion, Abomasnow, Lickilicky, Magmortar, Gallade, Froslass, Uxie, Mesprit, Regigigas, Shaymin UU: Blastoise, Butterfree, Raticate, Arbok, Pikachu, Raichu, Sandslash, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Vileplume, Venomoth, Persian, Golduck, Primeape, Poliwrath, Victreebel, Golem, Rapidash, Magneton, Dodrio, Dewgong*, Muk, Hypno, Kingler, Electrode, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Kangaskhan, Mr. Mime, Scyther, Jynx, Pinsir, Flareon, Omastar, Kabutops, Meganium, Lanturn, Xatu, Ampharos, Bellossom, Sudowoodo, Politoed, Jumpluff, Sunflora, Quagsire, Slowking, Dunsparce, Granbull, Qwilfish, Octillery, Mantine, Stantler, Hitmontop, Linoone, Shiftry, Swellow, Exploud, Hariyama, Aggron, Manectric, Sharpedo, Wailord, Camerupt, Torkoal, Grumpig, Crawdaunt, Cacturne, Altaria, Seviper, Lunatone, Solrock, Cradily, Armaldo, Banette, Walrein, Clamperl, Gorebyss, Relicanth, Luxray, Bastiodon, Vespiquen, Gastrodon, Drifblim, Lopunny, Skuntank, Chatot, Toxicroak, Carnivine, Leafeon, Glaceon, Probopass, Rotom NU: Beedrill, Pidgeot, Fearow, Wigglytuff, Parasect, Farfetch'd, Seaking, Ditto, Furret, Noctowl, Ledian, Ariados, Unown, Girafarig, Shuckle, Magcargo, Corsola, Delibird, Mightyena, Beautifly, Dustox, Pelipper, Masquerain, Delcatty, Sableye, Plusle, Minun, Volbeat, Illumise, Swalot, Spinda, Whiscash, Castform, Kecleon, Tropius, Chimecho, Glalie, Huntail, Luvdisc, Bibarel, Kricketune, Wormadam, Wormadam (Ground), Wormadam (Steel), Mothim, Pachirisu, Cherrim, Purugly, Lumineon, Phione* - I see no reason why Magneton should be Borderline because it was OU in Advanced. It was mainly used to murder Skarmory in the third generation metagame. Skarmory isn't in UU, so what makes DP Magneton any different from GS Magneton, who was also UU? *** - Honestly, I feel Dewgong is superior to Phione in almost every way. All Phione has is a singular typing (but on the other hand, only one STAB as well) and slightly better Special Attack. The only reason to use either is Hydration and Dewgong has better defensive stats to pull it off. So, there you go. Let me know what you think and what I should change. I tried to look at Smogon's tiers, Shoddy usage statistics and comments in this thread before making this list. Last edited by Frost on Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:36 am, edited 4 times in total.
Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:33 pm

sanjay120 Dragon Tamer Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117	Chatot, Sudowoodo, and Sunflora need to be moved up. Chatot: Gets 91 base Spd, 92 base SAttk, Sing, Encore, STAB Chatter, Nasty Plot, and HP Fighting. Fight/Fly is unresisted in the NU tier and there are no solid counters. Sunflora: 105 base SAttk with Solar Power is amazing. It gets Leaf Storm, Solarbeam, and Sludge Bomb, in addition to HP Fire. That's all it needs. I have determiened through at least thirty minutes of solid typing (it made my fingers hurt >.<) that when it holds Occa Berry, which is Fire resist, it has no counters. Get something to set up Trick Room and Sunny Day (Kecleon comes to mind, sturdy enough to not need Focus Sash so it can use Heat Rock) and it pwns. Sudowoodo: Base 100 Attk, base 115 Def, and an amazing physical movepool. Wood Hammer with no recoil, Explosion, STAB Stone Edge, Earthquake, Hammer Arm, Focus Punch, Sucker Punch, etc. Works great with a CB and especially on a Trick Room team and I can't see anything that counters it.
Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:59 pm

Gnaaye Pokemon Ranger Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:22 am Posts: 815	Re: hey... Aggron may be moved down to UU, as x4 fighting and ground weaknesses are really HARD to counter even with 180 base defense. Primeape, Golem, Hitmontop, Quagsire and Probopass all wall can switch in a STAB Rock attack and score a potential OHKO with STAB EQ/Cross Chop. Shedinja needs to be moved down to NU. Toxic, Burn, Fire, Dark, Flying, Ghost, Rock, Leech Seed, Struggle... You name it, it kills it. Even with SashEndure, it's fairly easy to kill in even NU. Wynaut should be moved up to Ubers, as even it has too low HP to take advantage of its attacks. You can slap a Sash on it and its automatically 6-5. They try to be smart with you and stat up? Encore and set up Boah while they are busy Swords Dancing with +8 attack. That's all I guess. _________________ (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ('')_('') signature to help him gain world domination The Jonatron wrote: Xatu Unlickely this guy wont get powered.
Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:16 am

sanjay120 Dragon Tamer Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117	Re: hey... Gnaaye wrote: Aggron may be moved down to UU, as x4 fighting and ground weaknesses are really HARD to counter even with 180 base defense. Primeape, Golem, Hitmontop, Quagsire and Probopass all wall can switch in a STAB Rock attack and score a potential OHKO with STAB EQ/Cross Chop. Shedinja needs to be moved down to NU. Toxic, Burn, Fire, Dark, Flying, Ghost, Rock, Leech Seed, Struggle... You name it, it kills it. Even with SashEndure, it's fairly easy to kill in even NU. Wynaut should be moved up to Ubers, as even it has too low HP to take advantage of its attacks. You can slap a Sash on it and its automatically 6-5. They try to be smart with you and stat up? Encore and set up Boah while they are busy Swords Dancing with +8 attack. That's all I guess. 1. Aggron is UU. 2. Shedinja rules NU. Too much. 3. Wynaut belongs in BL at the very most. Also Boah isn't set up. :/
Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:58 am

Gnaaye Pokemon Ranger Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:22 am Posts: 815	Boah is SUBSTITUTE/Focus Punch/Ice Beam/Crunch. _________________ (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ('')_('') signature to help him gain world domination The Jonatron wrote: Xatu Unlickely this guy wont get powered.
Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:53 am

EvilPenguin Gym Leader Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:46 am Posts: 1553	Just a couple of things. 1. I don't see Rhyperior or Slowking on the lists at all. 2. Why is Shedinja in BL? Theres just too many things that kill it, it NEEDS to be put in UU, if not NU _________________ Last edited by EvilPenguin on Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:22 am

sanjay120 Dragon Tamer Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117	Sheddy kicks the **** out of NU. UU for it.
Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:55 pm

Peanut-Lover Site Administrator Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 am Posts: 1917 Location: Brooklyn, NY	EP - Shedinja is UU - stealth rock, spikes, burn, toxic all kill it. Faster flying/ghost/dark/fire/rock/poison moves that hit kill it. Unfortunately, in NU, nothing really carries that, so it is kicked up to UU. I'd like to know why Alakazam and Snorlax are still considered OU. Alakazam has lost the elemental punches, and is relegated to Psychic, Shadow ball, energy ball, focus blast, and the odd tricking of a choice item. However, plenty of psychics do this all better - as a result of pulling it off more than once. Snorlax should honestly be moved to BL - while its not terrible, it is inferior to blissey (strike one), lacks a recovery move not known as rest (strike 2), it also has relatively inferior stats (strike 3 - out). Houndoom is a peculiar one - it's very powerful, but its frail as poo. Weakness to Water, fighting, ground, rock. Most importantly, 25% stealth rock. Medicham should be considered BL - 482 Attack is good, but it has a movepool problem - rock slide, psycho cut, 4 fighting moves, elemental punches. But it misses what set it apart from so many others - physical shadow ball. Torterra is BL - 4x weak to ice, no real recovery move, and grass sucks in terms of type coverage. It looks like a donphan that got grass typing and has no rapid spin. Aside from Scyther, Pika, and possibly Vigoroth, NFE's should be left out (I look at BL Chansey). And, if Snorlax is kicked down, that won't be a problem. Kadabra isn't an exception. Lapras is UU - weak to Stealth rock, not such a good offensive movepool, no way to increase the defenses aside from Curse. no healing aside from rest. Did I mention the typing affords it 1 resist (ice) and one immunity (water). The tier list needs fixups.
Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:29 pm

sanjay120 Dragon Tamer Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:43 pm Posts: 117	Lapras needs to stay BL. Have you ever faced Ice Shard/Return/Waterfall/DD? The NFEs that should be allowed are: Trapinch: Plays completely different than Flygon. Arena Trap is a great trait, it has different STABs, and the Spd just screams Trick Room. NU, possibly UU. Vigoroth: Again, completely different than Slaking. Mediocre stats but good movepool and a much better trait than Truant. UU. Pikachu: Only here because of Light Ball. Either UU or BL. Clamperl: Only here because of DeepSeaTooth/DeepSeaScale (more notably the former). UU. Scyther: Plays differently than Scizor in more Spd, less defenses, different typing. UU. Porygon2: Plays differently than Porygon-Z in a much bulkier spread, still usable (read: 115 base) SAttk, and good support movepool involving Recover. BL.
Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:43 am

Peanut-Lover Site Administrator Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 am Posts: 1917 Location: Brooklyn, NY	Vital Spirit gives Vigoroth BL status, IMO. Trapinch could work BL Pikachu is an electric with the ability to scare hippowdon in more ways than one. Surf, Grass Knot.
Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:29 pm

jamashawalker Dragon Tamer Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:57 am Posts: 160	Re: Peanut-Lover wrote: Vital Spirit gives Vigoroth BL status, IMO. Trapinch could work BL Pikachu is an electric with the ability to scare hippowdon in more ways than one. Surf, Grass Knot. vital spirit is just a mediocre abiity that counters, a spore/hypnosis but the only reason why we see that ability "soooo great" is because of slaking's truant...but vigorth's stats are not that high nor is his movepool not that great to match with his stats.... and people are debating about it now if slaking should be considered BL or OU status....it's UU at best... Trapinch ONLY and ONLY works as a revenge killer trick room choice banded or life orbed....other than that you cant really do anything with him...and if you can do something else with him, flygon will do it better...so it is NU/UU ppl are only usin pikachu now because of his light ball...at which is still very easy to counter with many other pokemon. and most ppl would run a jolly/timid nature on him, because pikachu needs all the speed it can get, so that would make his special attack 398 at max with the right IVs, that's very high but still easy to counter with his "OK" speed...and without a focus stash his fragile body can be OHKOed by many simple moves UU for sure
Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:24 pm

Peanut-Lover Site Administrator Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 am Posts: 1917 Location: Brooklyn, NY	Re: D/P tiers Problem is that slaking has no counters in uu - he's too strong. For them to be moved down a tier, they must be a.) too weak for the upper tier, but more importantly b.) it must have counters in the lower tier. He is borderline - he isn't too weak for bl, ohkoing everything (2 turns, granted).
Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:30 pm

jamashawalker Dragon Tamer Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:57 am Posts: 160	Re: D/P tiers Peanut-Lover wrote: Problem is that slaking has no counters in uu - he's too strong. For them to be moved down a tier, they must be a.) too weak for the upper tier, but more importantly b.) it must have counters in the lower tier. He is borderline - he isn't too weak for bl, ohkoing everything (2 turns, granted). lol no i meant VIGiROTH should be UU at best hahaha..i mean your right about slaking...he is way too powerful with a giga impact, body slam, or return
Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:42 am

MasonTheChef Pokemon Master Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 am Posts: 1575 Location: Michigan	Re: D/P tiers I'd like to argue about Hitmonchan being in the UU. At least in 4th gen 55 base HP 105 base atk 79 base def 110 base s.def 76 speed which can be boosted x2 by agility 90 base power physical Ice and Thunder punch w/Iron fist 120 power STAB physical Close combat All he needs is Adamant nature + IVs into Attack/HP/DEF and he easily clobbers everything listed in UU with the moveset -Ice punch -Thunder punch -Close combat -Agility To him 3 strong diverse type moves that give him an advantage to 10/17 types and 0/17 resist
Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:58 pm

Peanut-Lover Site Administrator Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 am Posts: 1917 Location: Brooklyn, NY	Re: D/P tiers Earthquake > Agility, and he'll have alot better - taking on his main counters in Toxicroak and Muk. That is, if the choice scarf is used to make up for lis less than stellar speed. Or, pursuit for the ghosts (namely frosslass, rotom, shedinja). Especially on choice scarf versions. This isn't a rate though, just showing what else it could do. and this thing looks great - except it is stopped by several - muk/toxicroak without earthquake, shedinja if it doesn't have fire punch or stone edge, most ghosts. Nidoking/queen thanks to immunity and resists (again, Earthquake). Of course, stepping away from the punches, you just have a weak hitmonlee and primape. It also wouldn't do that well in BL - way too many things can kill it, and base 76 speed isn't all that good for something this frail . On a seperate note, questions about iron fist - the boost of 20% goes to Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Sky Uppercut, and ThunderPunch. What about Close Combat and brick break? more info, pls.
Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:19 pm

MasonTheChef Pokemon Master Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 am Posts: 1575 Location: Michigan	Re: D/P tiers True. Muk and Toxicroak can counter him quite well, EQ would help him a lot! O.O (I had no idea he could learn it...) Methinks that'll replace thunder punch on mine. That ups him to having advantage to 12/17 base types >:D Pursuit is a good option for ghosts that'll usually be switched in to him, but pursuit at 2x damage is only 80 power, Ice punch is 90 w/Iron fist and frosglass can be done by EQ. Shedinja is a problem, but it's not worth a move solely to counter it. Agility is a must for him and his speed :/ IV's in HP and DEF helps him absorb at least one hit so agility can be placed in. To my knowledge Iron fist only affects Bullet Punch, Comet Punch, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Focus Punch, Ice Punch, Mach Punch, Mega Punch, Sky Uppercut, ThunderPunch and I assume Sucker punch and Shadow punch (Though he doesn't learn them...) I know close combat isn't affected, not sure about Brick break. Also for a note against him: It is a freaking B**** to get a +atk nature tyroge to evolve into chan >.<
Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:57 am

Peanut-Lover Site Administrator Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 am Posts: 1917 Location: Brooklyn, NY	Re: D/P tiers But by getting rid of thunderpunch, you lose coverage of waters and flyers, namely mantine, poliwrath, dodrio, and swellow. I recommended choice scarf > life orb, but agility is certainly a viable option. And, thats why using a ditto with adamant nature is best.
Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:18 pm

MasonTheChef Pokemon Master Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:02 am Posts: 1575 Location: Michigan	Re: D/P tiers Peanut-Lover wrote: But by getting rid of thunderpunch, you lose coverage of waters and flyers, namely mantine, poliwrath, dodrio, and swellow. I recommended choice scarf > life orb, but agility is certainly a viable option. And, thats why using a ditto with adamant nature is best. Dodrio and swellow can be hit well w/ Ice punch. but the others would take some more effort >.< I wouldn't recommend life orb on a hitmonchan w/agility since his HP will likely be cut greatly to get the speed boost into effect. Muscle band/Expert belt is sufficient. Yes, I got an adamant ditto just for breeding this poke .
Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:33 am

johnwolf Psychic Trainer Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:48 pm Posts: 63	Re: D/P tiers i see shedinja alot in the battletower. its not exactly under used. _________________ i'm silver not gold (darn) 92% of all competitive battlers think that Skarm, Bliss, a Gengar and a good 'Chomp is all you need to own things. If you're in the 8% who value creative thinking and originality with your teams, put this in you signature.
Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:14 am

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