Well, they've finally done it. Salamence is now an uber and no longer a suspect. Thoughts?

I agree. Me and my friends use Lati@s and Chompy against each other all the time. I like Dragonite myself and think it will definitely get a lot more popularity. The only thing I don't like about Dragonite is the speed, as 80 isn't all that high, (but with a dragon dance or two under his belt this isn't such a big problem) and the ability, which isn't as useful as Intimidate. On the upside, Dragonite does have more bulk than Mence, and Extremespeed to deal with pokemon such as Weavile and Mamoswine who try to revenge kill Dragon types with Ice Shard, a move that would always either kill or force out Salamence.

The bottom line is, there are other pokemon to use as a replacement for Salamence. Its not like they banned Tyranitar or Heatran.

i thought we used the psypoke tier list on this site, no?

i thought we did have one its the same to smogons bar garchomp [and now salamence] from OU to UBER

It's hasn't been updated since January.


I lol'd at hearing this, mence does seems a bit more worthwhile than lati@s being banned. I still make my teams to work against both Battle tower rules and smogon rules so it won't effect me much. Kingdra FTW

I'm still waiting to Jirachi and NP Celebii to be banned. >.>



So another question: With B/W's 6v6 Random Wi-fi, assuming they enforce at least battle tower tier list and basic clauses, will it kill smogon's metagame authority?

^ On the last part, I doubt it. Mainly for the reason that 99% of all good battlers use Shoddy primarily, and Shoddy is affiliated with Smogon.

On the main thread, Mence honestly deserved to be banned, under both offensive and support characteristics, imo.

I'm sure people will still battle online, but it has been usual for a new emulator to be built each gen and it took shoddy quite a while to match up to D/P's game mechanics. I'm just wondering if they'll be a migration to an already completed non-computer server for gen V if it gives everything the emu can give. (other than always perfect IVs) The problem there for smogon is without control of the server they can't control the community to new standards as easily.

Well, despite not controlling the tiering if someone not affiliated with Smogon decides to make a gen 5 battle simulator before they do, the Smogon tiers will undoubtably still be the best. This is simply because of one undeniable fact: Smogon has far better battlers than other competitive Pokemon sites do. Sure, there are a number of people who aren't great at battling on Smogon, but people like Panamaxis, Imperfectluck, Twist Of Fate, and Phillip are easily better than the average -- or even the extremely good -- competitive battler on pretty much every other site. I trust these battlers to make good decisions on tiering, because, to put it simply, they know far more about this game than other players. For example, I see many people saying "blah blah blah, I had no trouble with Mence, who was easily taken down by Ice attacks. It shouldn't be banned!11!!!!!" and stuff similar to that. These battlers that I mentioned? They consider what will be better for the metagame, and in general, better for competitive battling, not just their opinion on whether or not they can beat Salamence easily.

I've got nothing against smogon's tiering, I'm more wondering about Gen V's wifi battling if it outpaces emus. If you got the thousands of completive battlers on there how will a community as smogon enforce a uber ban with the million(s) of total players. Of course this assumes that nintendo is smart enough to add basic rules to the wi-fi, otherwise the competitive players will just join up on emus.

I would love it, if smogon lost their say.

By the looks of it they'll make gen V a completely new list separate from gen IV. It may very well be in OU in B/W.

Hopefully, Salamence won't get any ridiculous new moves or perks (i.e. draco meteor, 120 bp outrage) so that he'll get sent back to ou.

And by the way, Psypoke's "tier list" hasn't been updated since January and it still has Latias and Mence as OU.

I don't see Smogon as trying to control the tier system, but rather as a community that researches the competitive metagames. Their tiers are respected as real world companies might view papers from MIT. Players will use, or not use, Smogon tiers as they see fit. But the Smogon community will use their tiers, not to influence others, but because it is the "cutting edge" in the metagames research.

I don't care so much about salamence, I over all hate smogon. It sucks, is stupid, and gives bad tips on pokemon.

I hate Smogon because they are banning pokemon under authority that they gave themselves.
If Nintendo did not want certain pokemon being in the game than they wouldn't have been made! I don't see Nintendo coming out and saying, "Hey Smogon, you guys should just ban all the pokemon that you think should not be in the game."

It's wrong, I refuse to have a website of self elected bureaucrats tell me how to play my game.
I want to play my Drizzle Politoed with my Swift Swim Gorebyss, and you know what, they have no right to tell me that I can't do that.

If Smogon just wants to ban all the powerful and fun to play pokemon, then what is left? Pokemon that people don't care about. Suddenly, pokemon isn't fun because you can't play it the way you want to because Smogon wants to ban them all.

Well I'm just going to keep playing the way I want to, and I will play online using drizzle and swift swim, meanwhile all they will do is cry about how unfair it is because they banned it instead of trying to find something to defeat it.

Please stop necromancing, this thread is about a year old!

Sorry for your hatred of them, and there's nothing wrong with playing how you like. But if you want to find battles online outside random matchup you'll likely have to follow Smogon or PO's rules (Psypoke's rules are the same as Smogon's but with non-SB Blaziken allowed)