Okay, people. Seriously? Trubbish and Garbodor are friggin' trash bags, while the Vanillite line are ice cream cones. How lazy are these people? Do you know how long I said, "They're f***ing trash bags!" once I saw Trubbish? Ten hours. Not consecutively, mind you, but over the next ten hours, I was just amazed at this discovery, and kept repeating it at random points throughout the day. So, tell me if you find them ridiculous. I want to know.

People seem to do just fine with Grimer and Muk being piles of sludge, and Voltorb and Electrode being balls.

Let's talk about details:

1st Gen:
Muk: Purple pile of sludge with eyes and mouth.
Electrode: White and red ball with eyes and mouth.

5th Gen:
Garbodor: Round eyes, round mouth with teeth. A green thing (I think it's a bag). 2 "balls" on top of his head. Wide brown body with pink and blue spot, and probably little feet. 2 horrible arms made out of worms (???).
Vanilluxe: 3 cones made out of ice together. 2 ice cream balls on top of that with ice coming out from them, with a cone of ice coming out from the left ball. 2 horrible purple smile, one with wide open eyes and one with closed eyes.

Actually... there is too much details on new Pokemon. And when there's too much details on something, it looks horrible, like what happened to today's cars. (Talking about you, Toyota.)

So, in my opinion...
1. Flaming_Wuzzle, your argument is invalid.
2. Dream World is working too hard on details, when they could do beautiful Pokemon with simple designs.

Some of the old Pokemon, like Mr.Mime, are ugly, I agree, but it's SOME of them, not MOST of them, like new gens.

So I totally agree with you, Charphlokenapoar

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON GRIMER AND VOLTORB!

I'm kidding. Yes, piles of sludge and Pokéballs. But they're not super ridiculous. They're not bags of trash or ice cream cones. And, personally, I think the design for Pokémon has been getting worse since after the first generation, but that's mostly because I'm usually fond of the originals, and I like the original generation better. I like the Original Series of Star Trek better, the original trilogy of Star Wars... You get my point.

High Five!!!

We're not talking about details, though. We're talking about the concepts themselves, and how apparently a trash bag is not allowed to come to life (when we already have precedent for a pile of sludge doing so), nor are ice monsters covered in snow.

Also, your hair isn't a bird, my argument is still valid.

I get the sludge coming to life, the pollution and radiation, the whole shebang. I get the electric charge of Pokéballs, resulting in Voltorb. If Trubbish and Garbodor were not actual bags of trash, I think I would be okay with it. But they have trash bags. Plastic trash bags. Unscented, I'm assuming. And the Vanillite clan are not ice monsters covered in snow, they're ice cream cones. One's a deluxe sundae with a straw. And they're naturally occurring. But I see your point about the precedents. We've already accepted Grimer and Voltorb, Muk and Electrode. But I still think trash bags and a summer dessert are going too far.

Yeah... the concepts...
If I take a guitar, and I want to do a pokemon with this, will it look super-awesome?
Probably not.

Some of the concepts have no sense in the new generations, like, obviously, ice cream, plastic garbage bag, and a freakin' gothic girl!!!

But well, Dream World proved that they can do great designs using unusual concepts, like a magnet (magnemite)
But today... well... a chandelier was a great idea, but they completly messed it up with too much details.

Good night.

How do you know my hair is a bird? o_O

There's a chandelier Pokémon? Mother of....

Gen 5 created fabulous creatures like Golurk, Ferrothorn, Galvantula, Bisharp, Hydreigon, Chandelure, Cofagrigus, Krookodile, Darmanitan, I could go on and on all day, and you choose to focus in on two evolutionary lines? Not Pidove line? Not the three monkeys that are carbon copies of each other in stats, abilities, and level-up moves (with only Fire/Water/Grass differences)?

You completely neglect to mention the fact that every generation thus far has had stupid evolutionary lines (Voltorb, Dugtrio, Pichu, Cleffa, Mightyena, Floatzel, Lumineon), not to mention the jillion Pikachu/Rattata clones that are always running around in every generation to date (I'd mention Pidgey clones but Swellow and Staraptor were sharp deviations from the pattern)? and yet despite all generations thus far having amazing Pokemon ideas, you choose to focus on the one or two lines that simply grind your gears?

You're a stupid hater.
I hope someone punches you in the face for your sheer stupidity and close-mindedness.

I'm so very sorry that I picked on your favorite Pokémon. My apologies, you immature little twit. Now, I have no idea what any of those Pokémon you mentioned are, I have yet to even play Black or White. I just found Trashbag and Vanilla, thought they were ridiculous, wanted to see if anyone did, too. And how is Dugtrio stupid? It's a friggin' mole! That's pretty cool, innit? You can play whack-a-mole, it's a hell of time! And I hope YOU have a nice frickin' day!

Vanilluxe is only my 54th favorite Pokemon (I prefer Vanillite; it's at 25), and Garbodor doesn't even make my top 100, dipstick. I'm just defending them because I don't believe they deserved to be harassed by close-minded children like you.

Dugtrio was mentioned because it is merely 3 Diglett stuck together. It's an aggregate, but there's no real combining of bodies. Magneton is much the same way.


...you and almost all of the Gen 5 haters. What did they ever do to you? Kill your family?

Right, calm the hell down, both of you. There's absolutely no need to call each other names here.

Keep it up and I lock the topic for 24 hours.

I personally, do not find them ridiculous. AT ALL.

I used a Vanilluxe in my team for White first playthrough. I grew quite loved to it. I don't understand the hype about Trash bags and ice cream cones. Explain to me when Vanillite was announced as and ice cream pokemon.

No, its a FRESH SNOW pokemon. The concept isn't dumb at all. What's with Snover, Glalie and Froslass? No one questioned them. Look at Pikachu in the matter, how does a mouse become electric. A flaming horse? None of these are logical. Its a fictional game, not real life, you don't like the concept of pokemon, get over it. Its not even an icecream cone. Trubbish and Garbodor are rubbish bags. The basic same thing as Grimer and Muk.


Oh, and Char, I wouldn't be calling DNA an immature twit, especially when you come onto this forum, and judge someone by one single post. You haven't even played B/W and you're criticising a pokemon you haven't touched.

[/rant over]

I have already explained that in another thread, somewhere.
And DNA... what happened to you? Actually, he just wanted to share his opinion and you call him stupid hater...
Thanks to dna... I'm out of here, not fun anymore.

That answers my question. Others do find them ridiculous. I'm not alone.

I apologize right now to anyone that comes onto this thread to have a mature discussion where we discuss our opinions like adults. There'll be none of that here, apparently.

Another debate over Vanillue and Garbodor? I thought that was ended ages ago. Oh well, guess I'll just break out the popcorn again.



But honestly, all the generations have had their gems and their duds. Amd honestly, I'd only say that there are a couple of duds out of the entire six hundred and forty nine of them.

And for the record the argument of the new gens using inanimate objects is completely wrong. There's always been inanimate objects. Generation I had, to name a few, rocks, eggs, balls, sludge, magnets... And you would criticize Gen V for using a trash bag, an ice cream cone (which isn't even an ice cream cone, as FW pointed out), and a chandelier? No, you simply can't. Chandelure, for the record, is one of my favorite Pokemon of all time. Pokemon don't need to be logical. That's already been well established.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate older Pokemon. They have nothing wrong with them. I actually love a lot of them. It's only when people try to make them out to be the pinnacle of Pokemon perfection that gets on my nerves.

And while I don't want to come off as rude, you are indeed being closed-minded if you don't want to accept Pokemon for what they are. You've said that you haven't even played Gen V, so you have absolutely no room to criticize them.


Ah, because starting a thread like you did to openly criticize Pokemon that have nothing wrong with them, then calling one of the most respected members of the forums an immature twit certainly is a mature thing to do, kudos to you fine sir.

A well-respected member of your forum talks like this to someone for expressing an opinion? Wow.

As for Chandelure, I actually like that Pokémon. Dark and Fire is an awesome combination.

I did not start this thread to openly criticize anything. I started this thread to see if anyone else found these Pokémon to be ridiculous, and if they did, they could say so freely, and if they didn't, they could say so freely, all the while being mature, and not attacking a person. I expressed my opinion in the opening post maturely, rebutted Flaming_Wuzzle without personally attacking him, had an input from GhostPony750, then everything started getting personal.

Are you people with a Pokémon rights group? What the hell is happening? They're not real, people! They have no feelings! They won't be offended, like y'all obviously are! Although I was originally talking about the designers being lazy, not the Pokémon themselves. See:

PEOPLE! Clearly referring to the designers. Who do have feelings. And if you were defending them, then I understand. But you're defending fictional things, and getting all upset about it. That'd be like me getting all upset about how someone likes Edward when I like Jacob and think Edward's a douche. "Jacob is a sensitive vampire and/or werewolf! He doesn't deserve this treatment!" I just want to be clear that I don't actually like either of them, my cousin has posters of both of them on her wall and talks about this crap all the time.

And if you argue with me that Vanilluxe is not an ice cream sundae with a straw, then you've never seen Vanilluxe. Either that, or you've never seen an ice cream sundae.

Actually, before I have ever played my Firered, I knew some of the Pokemon, like Mr.Mime. and after playing my game, I still don't like him. Same thing for Giratina before I got my Diamond. So I think that if I play BW, I'm not going to love Gothica suddenly because I saw it in game. So yes, I can criticize by the look even if I never ever played gen5.

This is the big thing.
He actually never wanted to start a rage thread, it's DNA who started the whole thing. Actually, I respect everyone equally, and I think you favoritize DNA becasue he is older on these forums, which is wrong.

I don't want to fuel the fire but, Chadelure is Ghost and Fire.

Also, we should all just stop posting, let Flaming_Wuzzle lock the thread and forgive and forget.

First I'd like to say this personally to James and TT:
You have no need to speak up on my behalf. I'm capable of fighting my own battles, thank you.

Moving on, back to the point.


I was defending the designers. They do put a lot of work into what they do to try and create Pokemon that a lot of people will love. It is fair to assume that in that giant handful there will be some duds. That's just the way things are. But they won't be duds for everyone.

For example, a lot of people like Pikachu, Umbreon, and Liepard. I detest them and I find it very hard to see why people like them, but I respect their opinions to like certain Pokemon. On the flip side, I very much like Klinklang and the idea behind its evolution (continually growing and upgrading), but I also respect the people who don't like Klinklang for being bland, or whatever reason they have.

I honestly don't know what your deal is, though. You're trying to find people who share your hatred of certain Pokemon, encouraging others to do the same, and then bashing the people who happen to like them:


Why is it okay for you to disrespect my opinion of Vanilluxe and Garbodor, but it's not okay for me to tell you that your outlook on the matter is wrong and you should adjust your perspective a bit?
Forgive me for sounding harsh, but this hatred viewpoint of Vanilluxe and Garbodor, for no other reason other than "they look like lame real-world objects" (and there are a ton of other Pokemon that are the same way, as has been pointed out), and - in some cases - expanding that lens to judge the entirety of Gen 5, is extremely prevalent, but it's misguided and it's casting Gen 5 in a poor light which I honestly do not believe it deserves. I see this opinion everywhere; it's terrible, it's narrow, and it's ignoring so much else.

To put it a bit more simply...I don't mind too much if you hate certain Pokemon, but keep it to yourself. I don't think anyone needs to know how much one guy hates Pokemon A, B, and C, or at least not devote an entire thread to them.
Say, if you started a thread like "What Pokemon do you guys hate?", and then led it off with those, it'd have turned out better. (I'd still be annoyed but I wouldn't be shouting.) Well...probably not better by much (since hate threads just turn into haters-gonna-hate arguments which get absolutely nowhere), but I think you get the point.

I apologize for being loud and annoyed as well, but I see this Vanilluxe/Garbodor/Gen5mon hate way too often, and to be honest I'm sick and tired of it.

No one's going to argue otherwise. The problem is people insinuating they ARE ice cream cones rather than simply looking like ice cream cones, something which a lot of people who hate on those particular Pokemon seem to do.

And yes, we're not defending the Pokemon themselves so much as defending the people who made them. The Vanillite and Trubbish lines are no more ridiculous than anything else we've seen over the years.

That would be my mistake. I was thinking because it was black it was dark. Anyway...

That's how it went in your mind? If you had ended your post differently, this whole thing would not be happening. Calling me a stupid hater and hoping someone punches me in the face is not a mature response, and I'll admit calling you an immature twit is not, either. And also, someone's outlooks--a.k.a. their opinions--cannot be wrong, unless their opinions are based on a fallacy. And speaking of fallacies, attacking a person instead of their argument, as you did at the end of your first post and I did in the opening line of my subsequent post, is the ad hominem fallacy, which, I can't remember, may negate the entire argument being made. It's been a long time since I studied fallacies.

I do not hate gen 5. I like Chandelure, the GHOST and fire Pokémon (I think I was thinking of Houndour earlier, as I had just caught one in my game). Don't really like Snivy but Serperior is cool. Samurott's awesome, it's got a sword thing attached to its head. And you know what? I don't particularly like Pikachu or Liepard either. Why is it that Pikachu is a correctly spelled word and Liepard isn't? If I remember correctly, Krokorok has a guitar or something, and rocks out. I think I saw that on the anime when my cousin was watching it, but I'm not sure, I could be mistaken. And Haxorus is by far one of the coolest things I've seen. It's an awesome dragon that's shorter than I am. And of course Reshiram is cool. I don't really like the Digimon-style combining of Reshiram/Zekrom with... the other one, but hey, that's just me.

My comment about Vanilluxe and all them being ice cream cones was not meant to be literal. I know they're not really ice cream cones, I'm sure they're... whatever in the anime. I was speaking metaphorically. And going over the comments, I can see how that may been misinterpreted. And I also want to say that I have nothing against them as Pokémon. I'm sure they're excellent battlers. I was simply saying they look ridiculous, judging them not by what's on the inside, but rather by what's on the outside. That makes everything okay.